Hello,
I have tried about 10-12 sessions using CCDAP3 and now I would share my personal comments. This software is very powerfull but a bit difficult for me in some aspects. I would describe my difficulties hoping someone could give me some tips.
1) Targets - Planning my Targets session ("Plan Only" box cheked in Settings window) I can't add objiects with P.A. different than 0.0; also rotating FOV on TheSky6 and push "get" as new entry, all the targets have 0.0 PA. How can I plan different tagets with different PA?
2) Focusing - I have used (in a real night session) "SkyStar" and "Brightest Star" methods (my setup: MaxIm - TheSky6 - Robofocus - Focusmax). Most of the times (about 50%) "SkyStar" method finds a double star! Maybe not a real double but, in any case, two very close stars choosen. So Focusmax can give a final position that's not the best focus position. I don't undertand why CCDAP3 chooses this kind of star with the moltitude of single stars available! Why not add a menu to choose the star to focus on?
Another point is the filter used for focusing. Personally I dislike the filter offset method and would have the possibility to set any filter I want for focusing. During a HaRGB imaging my dream would be the choice of the focusing star and the fousing filter at any time. In the "Light Frame" window should be sufficient add a pop-up menu with the filter to focus with, enabled when "Focus" box checked.
3) Flat Frames - This window is very problematic for me. I probably have not uderstood some aspects of it. In one of my session I programmed CCDAP3 to take some down flats. My intention was to set the same exposure (5 sec.) so to take the relative DarkFlats (leaving a variable exp. time range would cause some difficulties for many different darks). But entering the same value in Min eand Max exp. limits does not have results. Sun Elevation was as default (-8.0). As you can see on the attached log only one flat frame was performed; Why? Is not possible to set the time from wich to start the flats? Can CCDAP3 calculate the dusk or doen time? How to set the same exp. time for all flat? What is your behaviour about darkflats when you have many different exposures for flat frames?
Sorry to bother you with this long post, but I am only at the beginning.
Thanks in advance.

MB

ccdap20080209_045226.log (17 KB, 60 downloads) CCDAP3 log

Hi MB,

CCDAP3 is a wonderful program, and you have some good questions, so let me ttry and provide some answers based on my use of CCDAP3.

quote:

1) Targets - Planning my Targets session ("Plan Only" box cheked in Settings window) I can't add objiects with P.A. different than 0.0; also rotating FOV on TheSky6 and push "get" as new entry, all the targets have 0.0 PA. How can I plan different targets with different PA?

When I use TheSky6 and CCDAP3 in plan mode, I get the PA of my FOV. You might try updating TheSky6 to the latest hotfix, and updating CCDAP3 to the latest version. Are you rotating the FOVI in TheSky6 using the orange box to position the guidechip on a good guidestar ? This should change the PA that shows in TheSky6 and this is the value that should be transfered by using the "Get" button.

quote:

2) Focusing - I have used (in a real night session) "SkyStar" and "Brightest Star" methods (my setup: MaxIm - TheSky6 - Robofocus - Focusmax). Most of the times (about 50%) "SkyStar" method finds a double star! Maybe not a real double but, in any case, two very close stars choosen. So Focusmax can give a final position that's not the best focus position. I don't undertand why CCDAP3 chooses this kind of star with the moltitude of single stars available! Why not add a menu to choose the star to focus on?
Another point is the filter used for focusing. Personally I dislike the filter offset method and would have the possibility to set any filter I want for focusing. During a HaRGB imaging my dream would be the choice of the focusing star and the fousing filter at any time. In the "Light Frame" window should be sufficient add a pop-up menu with the filter to focus with, enabled when "Focus" box checked.

With the "Sky Star" focus selection, you have the flexibility to select the mag range of stars to be selected and the altitude that those stars are selected from. If your focus runs are finding stars that are too close together, try changing the mag and altitude for the selection to see if that improves the targets focus star selections. In FocusMax you can limit the area where the focus star will selected, so try decreasing the percentage around the center to something like 50% or less.

If you would prefer to focus with the filter you will be exposing, then uncheck the "Focus using" box on the Focusing tab. Then on the light frames tab, make sure you have a check in the Focus box by the Series you are taking. This will instruct CCDAP3 to focus with the filter that will be used for the exposure. On the Focusing Tab, make sure you have set the Focus exposure such that the focus routine will get enough ADU to complete the focus run. If you take a lot of narrowband images, this can really eat into your imaging time as the focus runs will be longer. I use the filter offsets and have had very little problems with the focus being right where it needs to be. The key for me was to spend a good amount of time establishing the filter focus points so my offsets would be accurate.

quote:

3) Flat Frames - This window is very problematic for me. I probably have not uderstood some aspects of it. In one of my session I programmed CCDAP3 to take some down flats. My intention was to set the same exposure (5 sec.) so to take the relative DarkFlats (leaving a variable exp. time range would cause some difficulties for many different darks). But entering the same value in Min eand Max exp. limits does not have results. Sun Elevation was as default (-8.0). As you can see on the attached log only one flat frame was performed; Why? Is not possible to set the time from wich to start the flats? Can CCDAP3 calculate the dusk or doen time? How to set the same exp. time for all flat? What is your behaviour about darkflats when you have many different exposures for flat frames?

Flat frames are not based on time but on ADU count. CCDAP3 will adjust the exposure time to reach the ADU count that you specify. For NABG cameras, 20-25K is a good number to shoot for. Flat frames are very high SNR images. Given that, they do not need dark frame subtraction. At most, all you need is a good master bias frame at the same temperature as your flats to calibrate them. I take dusk flats as it is always to humid in the morning at my location. I have a master bias made from 50 bias frames that I use to calibrate my flats.

Having a Ha filter in the mix with your standard RGB can cause exactly what you see in your log. For dawn flats, start with you lightest filter (ie the red or green), followed by the next darkest, then the next darkest, etc. There isn't alot of time for sky flats so you have to be prepared to get some one morning and some on another morning or evening. I would suggest you take your Ha flats at dusk and the RGB flats at dawn, or visa-versa. This way you can maximize the time available for flats with filters that are similar in transmission characteristics. If you want the flat routine to star earlier, then increase the negative number for your dawn flats from -8 to say - 9 or -10.

I hope this helps. If I was unclear on anything, please let me know and I'll give it another try :-)))

Frank, thank you very much for your nice support. I have understood many CCDAP3 features can be reached using and using it, while others are maybe less visible. Anyway I want to take advantage of your experience.

quote:

When I use TheSky6 and CCDAP3 in plan mode, I get the PA of my FOV. You might try updating TheSky6 to the latest hotfix, and updating CCDAP3 to the latest version. Are you rotating the FOVI in TheSky6 using the orange box to position the guidechip on a good guidestar ? This should change the PA that shows in TheSky6 and this is the value that should be transfered by using the "Get" button.

Yes, The Sky and CCDAP were updated to the latest versions. I rotate the FOVI using the orange box as we can see in the CCDAP online tutorial. But PA remains 0.0

quote:

With the "Sky Star" focus selection, you have the flexibility to select the mag range of stars to be selected and the altitude that those stars are selected from. If your focus runs are finding stars that are too close together, try changing the mag and altitude for the selection to see if that improves the targets focus star selections.

In the Sky I can see many stars, as good targets for focusing, quite close to the target objiect; CCDAP does not seem interested to pick-up them and sometimes goes very far to get a ..double star. I have tried selecting different magnitude ranges and altitudes. Anyway I have to retry.

quote:

Having a Ha filter in the mix with your standard RGB can cause exactly what you see in your log. For dawn flats, start with you lightest filter (ie the red or green), followed by the next darkest, then the next darkest, etc. There isn't alot of time for sky flats so you have to be prepared to get some one morning and some on another morning or evening

Down Flat routine was programmed with the follow filters (in sequence): blue - red - Green - Halpha. This is an Astrodon filter set and Halpha is a 6nm. Desirable ADU value was between 20000-30000. So I tought to have no problems putting Ha filter at the end of the list. I invite you to look at theese parts of my log:
07.23.34 Ha6nm_Flat series 5 starting...
07.23.48 Current ADU: 17.420
07.23.48 Exposure adjusted to 7,2 sec.
07.23.48 Too dark

and

07.26.25 Ha6nm_Flat series 5 starting...
07.26.39 Current ADU: 29.522
07.26.39 Exposure adjusted to 4,3 sec.
07.26.39 Too light

Than no Ha flats were taken.
CCDAP passes from "too dark" to "too light" in less than 3 minutes. This make not sense for me because it seems that "the train has been lost" altough the passenger could see it arriving!

quote:

If you want the flat routine to star earlier, then increase the negative number for your dawn flats from -8 to say - 9 or -10.

I don't understand this point. As you can see in the attached log, 29,9 sec exposure were not enough to reach the ADU value with the default sun's altitude (-8°): why should I anticipate the flat shots? ADU value should continue to be low. Or not?

Thanks again.

MB

Hi MB,

I tried the plan mode on another computer and it still works for me. One thing I noticed on your log file, and this is just a guess, are you using a language that has a comma for the english period designator? I wonder if the software is having difficulty dealing with the commas. This might explain the PA issue as it uses a decimal point and the ADU counts for the flats use a decimal point. You might try changing the designator in window to the decimal point to see if that has any effect on the problems. I have attached a screen shot from one of my systems that shows the PA entered after I clicked on the "Get" button. HTH ....

FOVI-PA.jpg (267 KB, 25 downloads) CCDAP3 PA from "Get"

Frank,
thinking the problem was in TheSky I reistalled it but PA rotation continues to fail. I have attached a screen shot wich demostrated that. If the problem is, as you suggest, in the commas language I have no idea how to resolve it. Since this is a big problem, because I can't use TheSky to get rotated tagets, I have posted this in a separate discussion, hoping someone will give me a tip.

Thanks.

MB

Screen.jpg (272 KB, 25 downloads)

Your flat problem is right here in your log:

quote:

Flat exposure range is from 5 to 5,1 sec.

You must give sufficient exposure range in which to achieve the desired ADU level. Suggested ranges are from 2 to 30 sec. With those ranges, you should be able to get a reasonable number of twilight flats.

On using the FOV to acquire a target, make sure in TheSky that you have one and only one FOVI active. There can be no more or no less than 1 active. Others can be in your list but they can not be enabled.

Thanks JohnZ,
I have setted that exposure range since I thought to force CCDAP to do a fixed exp time. Next time I will try the normal setting.
Anyway, looking the file log, it seems CCDAP tried many different exposures (from 2.5 sec to 29.9 sec) despite my settings.
What can you say about the other problem? (rotated targets)

Best

Massimo

Massimo,

Yes, it tried different exposures but, since they didn't fall in your specified range of 5.0 to 5.1 sec., they were rejected.

I answered above. You can not have more than one FOVI in TheSky. If you do have only one, then rotate the FOVI to the desired PA and that PA is recorded in the target list of CCDAP when the Get button is hit.

John,
I just did what you are saying. I have only one FOVI enabled. You can see my screen shot attached some posts above. In it the FOVI (WO FLT 110 etc....) is rotated but the get button gives a PA = 0.0!!!
As Frank suggested, I have also changed the number format from Italian to USA (comma problem?) but without results.
I know there is another mode to enter the PA but I like very much this CCDAP function to get PA from theSky. Maybe should I change any settings in TheSky?

Thanks

Massimo

Massimo,

Don't use the free rotation tool, that shows the N in it, to rotate the sky. It doesn't rotate the FOVI - it rotates TheSky!

You need to rotate the FOVI itself. See the CCDAP help topic on "Entering targets with TheSky6". Click on the FOVI to bring up the two small red squares. Click and drag the center one to translate the FOVI; click and rotate the outside square to rotate the FOVI. Once you hae the FOVI positioned as you want, hit the Get button.

Sorry John,
but I did not use the free roitaion tool!Of course I know it rotates the sky. I have attached two screen shots: Screen 1 in wich you can see the FOVI PA at 0° and Screen 2 with FOVI PA at 270°. The sky is not rotated while the FOVI is. What do you think?

Massimo

Screen-1.jpg (279 KB, 22 downloads)

This is the Screen 2 shot.

Screen-2.jpg (279 KB, 23 downloads)

BTW,
i
I have noted that also translation can't be performed. It seems CCDAP does not recognize TheSky FOVI movements.

Massimo

Massimo,

I am unable to duplicate the problems you are having on your system. Clearly this works for many users.

If possible, I suggest you try another PC.

Massimo,

Are you using TheSky6 Professional Edition? If not, this is the problem. Only the Pro edition exposes the object model to other programs.